Comments on: 4-H Goat Controversy Raises Questions About Kids and Terminal Livestock Sales https://modernfarmer.com/2023/06/4-h-goat-controversy/ Farm. Food. Life. Sun, 25 Aug 2024 05:49:16 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.6.1 By: Kevin https://modernfarmer.com/2023/06/4-h-goat-controversy/#comment-75544 Sun, 25 Aug 2024 05:49:16 +0000 https://modernfarmer.com/?p=149386#comment-75544 If you buy an animal at an auction it then becomes your property. You should be able to do anything you want with it. Have irt butchered, keep it as a pet, exhibit it in your petting zoo, put it in a movie or tv show, sacrifice it to the diety of your choice, anything you want. You shoukld have the right to do whatever you want with your own private property.

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By: Alia https://modernfarmer.com/2023/06/4-h-goat-controversy/#comment-70902 Tue, 30 Jan 2024 21:13:51 +0000 https://modernfarmer.com/?p=149386#comment-70902 In reply to Raven.

No one forced the child to participate in 4h. My sister participated in a kill show and before my sister even got the animal my mother made sure she understood its a kill show. At this point it wasn’t about the animal it was the lesson that you should not commit theft of property because you changed your mind. If you get a haircut halfway through you can’t just stop. You have already cut half your hair. She has now taught her child the lesson that she can commit a crime to get out of anything. Heck taking the animal back was the best outcome. Her parents could have faced prison time.

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By: Peggy https://modernfarmer.com/2023/06/4-h-goat-controversy/#comment-70652 Mon, 22 Jan 2024 18:20:49 +0000 https://modernfarmer.com/?p=149386#comment-70652 In reply to Chuck Cavaness in New Mexico.

I disagree. The parents taught the child that the child matters and they feelings about a situation matter. There is no need for a kill auction of these animals as proven in many other states. Additionally the child isn’t legally old enough to be held to a contract so essentially the fair stole the goat.

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By: Jeanmarie https://modernfarmer.com/2023/06/4-h-goat-controversy/#comment-68968 Mon, 13 Nov 2023 23:09:25 +0000 https://modernfarmer.com/?p=149386#comment-68968 In reply to Crystal.

When the rule of law is not respected, all civil society is at risk. If you don’t want to be involved with eating animals or raising animals for meat, by all means don’t be, but don’t pretend that choosing vegan or vegetarian diets does not involve the death of many creatures, and huge detriment to the environment, because it does. Enrolling a 9-year-old child in this program without the intention of following through was a cruel stunt by the parents.

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By: Jeanmaire https://modernfarmer.com/2023/06/4-h-goat-controversy/#comment-68967 Mon, 13 Nov 2023 23:03:54 +0000 https://modernfarmer.com/?p=149386#comment-68967 It seems that one of the things that needs to change is not enrolling 9-year-olds in a program to raise meat animals for market. If they are from a farming background, maybe, but it’s too young for most city or suburban kids to really grasp the purpose of the project.

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By: Tara https://modernfarmer.com/2023/06/4-h-goat-controversy/#comment-66023 Tue, 15 Aug 2023 01:40:30 +0000 https://modernfarmer.com/?p=149386#comment-66023 What a mess. It’s the responsibility of the adults to explain and make sure the kids actually understand what will happen at auction. If the child starts to panic or is incredibly emotional and cannot view their “project” as “meat,” then the adults need to stop forcing it and not require the child to enter the animal into a market auction. Maybe it was different when most 4-H students came from agricultural families and grew up around this. But that’s not the reality now, and not everyone will be able to handle it, nor should they be forced to do so. Whether this is logical or not, or “right” or not, it’s cruel to force a child to send an animal they raised to be killed if they weren’t prepared and knew going into it what would happen.
And I don’t buy the “that’s what the contract says” nonsense. Contracts and be and are revoked all the time if they’re done in ways that are acceptable to all parties. If the buyer was agreeable to the goat being returned (which it sounds like was the case based on the comments), then that could have happened in every other context. There’s no reason why it couldn’t have happened here especially when you’re talking about a voidable contract in the first place (and the idea that a 9-year-old can even understand what that means is laughable).

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By: Rocky https://modernfarmer.com/2023/06/4-h-goat-controversy/#comment-65862 Sun, 06 Aug 2023 04:11:43 +0000 https://modernfarmer.com/?p=149386#comment-65862 I gained all my respect, love, and enjoyment of animals from 4H and FFA programs. Wouldn’t trade it for anything. Such a positive for so many children.

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By: Jeri https://modernfarmer.com/2023/06/4-h-goat-controversy/#comment-65424 Wed, 12 Jul 2023 16:35:00 +0000 https://modernfarmer.com/?p=149386#comment-65424 In reply to Rachael Harralson.

While I see value in 4-H programs and their intent/ability to help kids understand & come to terms with the nature of animal husbandry & slaughter for meat, I also believe it is the responsibility of the 4-H leaders & parents to prepare a minor, especially the youngest of them, every step of the way.
Some kids will not be cut out for raising animals for terminal sale, even with the closest care & attention. At that point it should be up to the parents whether or not to press the issue & proceed with the sale.
Minors do not possess the faculties required to sign legally binding documents, therefore they cannot be enforced- and I believe trying to force the issue as a 4-H leader is only going to hurt the broader interest of the program.
Vetting & training of the parents should probably be a much larger part of the program going forward since it’s no longer true most of the parents have the background necessary to adequately prepare their kids for the reality of a terminal sale. You can think something is a good learning experience, but at the end of the day if you don’t know, you don’t know. Otherwise, what are the kids really learning? That 4-H is a cruel place that kills their pets.
That girl raised her goat as a pet. Shouldn’t have maybe, but did. Mistakes were made all around, but it wasn’t that girl’s fault & it was mishandled at the point she wanted to take her animal home & her parents backed it.
The fair shouldn’t have taken possession in this case. It’s done a considerable amount of harm to the reputation and viability of 4-H, for the youngest age groups especially.
The buyer didn’t even contest them backing out of the sale. Monetary compensation was offered both to the fair & to the buyer & if this arrangement was acceptable to the buyer, the fair was so far in the wrong for how they handled it, I’m more angry with them for crossing the line into parenting the child instead of just being a resource for learning. In the real world, you can back out of a contract if you can reach an agreement with the intended buyer. Legally, that kid was allowed to back out no matter what.

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By: Donna https://modernfarmer.com/2023/06/4-h-goat-controversy/#comment-65275 Thu, 06 Jul 2023 03:05:53 +0000 https://modernfarmer.com/?p=149386#comment-65275 In reply to Lynn Clark.

Too late, the Fair dictators sent out the police who forcibly took back the goat and sent it to slaughter!

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By: Donna https://modernfarmer.com/2023/06/4-h-goat-controversy/#comment-65274 Thu, 06 Jul 2023 02:50:37 +0000 https://modernfarmer.com/?p=149386#comment-65274 As someone who grew up in 4-H and think it’s a great experience for children I was appalled to learn that fair officials sent the police out to track down the goat after the buyer specifically approved the sparing of the goat from slaughter (didn’t see that mentioned in the article).
Now a little girl is traumatized because her parents made the mistake of signing up for a meat project instead of a breeding project. It was a clerical error that could have been easily remedied.
Now the Fair and 4-H has a huge nationwide PR disaster on their hands which will probably deter kids from joining, and the little girl will NEVER forget the trauma inflicted for absolutely no logical reason. The Fair and 4-H leaders and the police should be ashamed of themselves going to such great extremes to make sure the girls animal was killed. Don’t they have anything better to do than inflict suffering on the child and her family? And do they feel better now, knowing they got their way and “taught the child a lesson” that they were able to force the killing? It’s sickening. There are better ways to fund college tuition. That whole Fair management team should resign and let someone with common sense and compassion run the event.

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